PAFOC meeting

[TURNz]

Why would you need it in a hotel? Why would you need a gun in church? Why would you want to be armed in a shopping mall? Why would you want to be carrying at the gym?
I hope someone recognizes the pattern here.

A rule is a rule, so I will follow it as best I can, but Dan, I am unclear as to who's rule it is. You say its not the hotel or PAFOC.

[mjf]

Last year a retired police chief was attending a narcotics officer's convention... and... he was robbed, at gunpoint, in the bathroom there. and... this happened in Harrisburg, PA. This retired police chief was armed, thankfully.

After Blanchett left, Comparetto drew a firearm from his ankle holster and went after Blanchett, court papers stated. He and other officers took Blanchett into custody as Blanchett was trying to get into a taxi cab outside the Holiday Inn-Harrisburg East.
Blanchett, 19, of the 2000 block of Market Street, was charged with robbery, making terroristic threats, reckless endangerment, simple assault, carrying a firearm without a license and illegally possessing a firearm.
When asked for comment, Blanchett said, "I'm smooth," as he was being led from Smith's court.

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/ind...d_of_robb.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/0..._n_180414.html

Don't be quick to forget those four Lake Lakewood police officers who were all murdered while having coffee...
http://www.odmp.org/officer/20137-se...seph-renninger
http://www.odmp.org/officer/20138-of...na-g.-griswold
http://www.odmp.org/officer/20140-of...ilbur-owens-ii
http://www.odmp.org/officer/20139-of...james-richards

Sergeant Mark Renninger, Officer Tina Griswold, Officer Greg Richards, and Officer Ronald Owens were shot and killed in an ambush style attack while sitting in a coffee shop in Lakewood.

All four officers had parked their marked patrol cars in front of a coffee shop and were inside, in uniform, preparing for their shift. They were sitting at a table with their laptop computers open, completing job related paperwork. The suspect entered the coffee shop and stood in line. When he reached the counter he drew a handgun from his coat, turned toward the officers and opened fire. Two of the officers were shot before they had time to react. A third officer stood up, but was shot before he could draw his weapon. The fourth officer struggled with the suspect, wrestling him out the front door of the shop, before being shot. The fourth officer was able to return fire before he died, wounding the suspect as he fled.

A massive two day manhunt ensued, in an attempt to capture the suspect. He was shot and killed by a Seattle Police Officer, after the Seattle Officer observed the suspect near a stolen car. The officer attempted to take the suspect into custody, but the suspect refused to follow commands and attempted to flee, prompting the Officer to shoot and kill the suspect.

Sergeant Renninger had 13 years of law enforcement experience, five with the Lakewood Police Department and eight with the Tukwila Police Department. He is survived by his wife and three children.

I know we're not "expecting to be attacked" at a PAFOA meeting. But, I don't think those officers were expecting to be attacked as they enjoyed their lattes.

[gp52555]

Originally Posted by TURNz

Why would you need it in a hotel? Why would you need a gun in church? Why would you want to be armed in a shopping mall? Why would you want to be carrying at the gym?
I hope someone recognizes the pattern here.

A rule is a rule, so I will follow it as best I can, but Dan, I am unclear as to who's rule it is. You say its not the hotel or PAFOC.

Just a few:
Church shootings
2007 Colorado Springs, Co
2008 knoxville, Tenn
2009 Maryville, Il
2010 Richmond, Calif.
or how about Luby's cafeteria, Killeen, Tx (23 shot dead)
and mall shootings almost weekly!

[simsim]

All the post about this and that happening are nul and void. I am not required to carry a Firearm off duty and nor are you required too. Its simply a matter of prefrence. There are very few Agencies that make it a requirement while off duty.

The post about this and that happening are good points in an argument to carry but its still simply the persons prefrence not a requirement.

[adams528]

Sheepdogs make the sheep nervous.even though they are the protectors. Gentleman, if you choose to carry..learn to carry concealed. Train to retrieve a concealed weapon. Fredstate is right on..if it is concealed who would know? Unless you are constantly patting your roscoe to make sure its there or to let everyone else know you are carrying. Yes you have the right to carry but it will make the sheep nervous sometimes. If you send a mixed signal, you are an LEO, a professional yet you are in blue jeans, a torn tshirt, sneakers but wearing what looks like a cop belt and a gun you are sending a mixed signal and the sheep get nervours. Sorry, two different subjects concealed carry and professional image.

[SARK9]

^ Very good post!

While serving warrants in full uniform & duty belt I often notice people staring at my weapon. I routinely sense their discomfort when I walk into a restaurant, pump gas, stop and ask for directions, etc... As Adam528 mentions,"Sheepdogs make the sheep nervous, even though they are the protectors." Unfortunately, many people just aren't comfortable seeing an open weapon. While the sheep are enjoying their vacation and stay at the hotel, I don't think they expect to see a hundred + PSCs strapped and ready for action. I completely understand how we can easily make the guests nervous.

As some have already mentioned, we are not required to carry concealed. However, this is just my opinion, I think it's shows a more professional image.

[jnascar]

I have read alot of these posts on this and frankly am pretty shocked at some of the posts I see...."some people get nervous seeing you open carry" "why would you open carry it and not conceal it?" etc etc etc. A person has a CONSTITUTIONAL right to carry the way they want and who gives a crap if someone gets nervous cause they see your gun being carried, let them go get counsling then because they have the problem. "sheep get nervous when they see the sheep dog even though they are there to protect them"...who cares, the sheep dog isnt there to please the sheep , just protect them.

Anyone that wants to open carry that is there choice, not this boards or anyone on this boards and because someone has a bad opinion of someone who open carrys instead of conceals, well so what. Just because "people" may feel afraid or scared if they see you carrying openly means they have the issue not you. There is no constitutional right to not be afraid. If I was carrying openly in a room or where ever and some people didnt like it., ..well tough, leave the damn room then

[TURNz]

jnascar,

While I mostly agree with what you posted from a 2A point of view, I feel that as a Law Enforcement Professional, we should not be "excercising our Constitutional Rights" and should be more about displaying a Professional Image.

As Adams528 said, ripped jeans, t-shirt with a gun and a badge probably don't make people feel comfortable. However, a Constable in uniform, that is armed, should not raise the blood pressure of anyone that isn't breaking the law.

For those people that get squimish to see a fully uniformed cop with a gun exposed, I don't know how to help those people. In fact, I would feel weird about seeing a Police Officer in full uniform, without a gun.

[jnascar]

Originally Posted by TURNz

jnascar,

While I mostly agree with what you posted from a 2A point of view, I feel that as a Law Enforcement Professional, we should not be "excercising our Constitutional Rights" and should be more about displaying a Professional Image.

As Adams528 said, ripped jeans, t-shirt with a gun and a badge probably don't make people feel comfortable. However, a Constable in uniform, that is armed, should not raise the blood pressure of anyone that isn't breaking the law.

For those people that get squimish to see a fully uniformed cop with a gun exposed, I don't know how to help those people. In fact, I would feel weird about seeing a Police Officer in full uniform, without a gun.

" I feel that as a Law Enforcement Professional, we should not be "excercising our Constitutional Rights" and should be more about displaying a Professional Image. "

I know I must of not of read this right.....just because your LEO means your not supposed to and cant exercise your constitutional rights?????? This kind of thinking is why so many cities like chicago pass stupid gun laws that have to be overthrown.

No matter how one dresses and carrys is up to them, LEO or not. Anyone who dont feel "comfortable" as you say can go see a psych and get on some meds or something cause they are clearly the one with the issues. It isnt anyones job that carrys to make someone feel comfortable.

[TURNz]

You read what I wrote, perhaps I didn't spell out what I meant.

Would you have police officers in uniform, standing in front of an abortion clinic holding a sign that says "Life starts when the rubber breaks" or whatever the pro-lifers say?

When I am in my uniform, I am there to do my job, not be an activist. Besides, the argument for open carry is that it is allowed by law and that the PA Constitution protects it. That doesn't really apply to you, since being LEO lets you do all sorts of stuff "Joe Citizen" can't do.

It also doesn't reafirm any other OCers, since they are looking for you to harass them about it, or ignore it. They don't see a uniform cop and think "hey, another open carrier". So whether you are being an activist or not, nobody knows it if they think you are a cop.