outside work

[Constable Dan]

OK new ?? on working out side the scope Of a constable.

My high School Call me to work a football game with my fire arm and uniform.
I know we talked about this but they are going to pay $36.75 Per. Hour with a 5 hour Mim. that's a lot of $$$$$ to me!!!

If I do this more will come they use a Pvt. company and will still use them but asked me to take charge so they can be better and make it easier with my PD. They made some bad arrested or try to and my PD are not happy so the school is doing damage control and asked me to help.

DONT WHAT TO DO (work or not) take the cash and run and :zip:
Dan

[ConstableChuck]

I and several other Constables in my area work the school sporting events at $15 per hour, the school district is a government entity and your allowed to provide peace keeping services to other government agencies as a Constable, I say go work the games and enjoy the generous pay.

[topcop38]

there are several constables in my county that are not certified and work football games armed.

[Constable Dan]

Thanks A lot.

Till the next set of ????
C-ya

Dan;) :O :P

[ConstableChuck]

I believe the Act 44 Firearms certification is only required to carry while performing duties within the scope of Act 44 (Court Work) and that under the law Constables can open carry while performing peace keeping duties without the need for Certification, that being said I would be careful about carrying while in uniform without either Act 44 or at least an Act 235 because some people interpret the law differently or just don't understand the laws that govern Constables.

Also, if your going there to take charge because the private security people are screwing up, then you should make sure you know everything there is to know about your position as a Constable, ie: powers, duties ect...the worst thing would be for you to go there and give the impression that you don't know much about your job.

[WHT609]

That would be the pot calling the kettle black!!!

[ConstableChuck]

WHT609 would you care to elaborate ? or do you prefer to post mindless insults without meaning.

[Constable2506]

You can absolutly work the Football game in Uniform armed, etc. The check comes from the Municipality. Now if the Kiwanas or Jaycees hired you fo an event they are a private function and you would be nothing more than a security guard (keeping the peace) BUT Privately employed.

As for the Constables working with firearms that are not certified. Notify the President Judge AND PCCD. If something happens with a discharge of a weapon, the media will not be too kind to any constable. "That there are Rogue constables". And if it came out that anyone knew about it and di not report it it makes it no better than a the supposed "Code of Blue".

We had a constable in Chester County that did not. Needless to say he does not do it anymore. PCCD threatened to pull his card if there was anymore "incidents".

We should be proud to do out jobs with professionalism and integrity. If someone drags our profession down, disgard them.

Just this week I TRIED to do an execution for a district court in another county. Went to the supposed location that the civil papers were delivered to and a judgement rendered against. Could not find the location.. 4 Montgomery County constable. My court called him, told of my inability to find location, he made a desciption and vague directions were he served it. Still could not find it. Called constable for clarification, after a little himhawing he admitted he did not really serve it and filled out the paper work and collected the fees.. Needless to say I will be contacting his dictrict judge, the president judge, the Ethics commitee, PCCD. I don't care how long you have been doing this, Honesty and your reputation is all you have.

Be Safe..

[B002848]

While working for Local or State Governments you have to be Act 44 Firearms Certified to Worked ARMED,(schools). I have seen constables that are Act 44 Certified not firearms certified carrying while working games or for schools, they are act 235 certified wearing constable uniforms, State Police regulate act 235 and will not cover you if you should have an incident with a firearm while working as a constable working with act 235 card, not act 44 firearms, same goes with a constable working private security detail you should be act 235 certified to be covered, act 44 while not help in private security, act 44 does not certify you for private security. This issue has been going back and forth between PSP, and PCCD, Any constable should check with PCCD if your not sure if you are should be working as private security or a constable

[SETZ]

As I have stated in other threads, please reference your source(s) when giving out information. B002848, we've met and I respect you enough to believe that you know what you are talking about, but where did you get the info?

I have seen others on here define private duty, but say that if you do side work for a gov. entity it is not private. What makes the difference? PSP not covering a 235 cert. because of the uniform that is worn? I've never heard that from PSP. Where can I go to look that up?

PCCD only sets the training for those who do court work. Nothing more. I have asked questions of them and got conflicting answers from different people. I sometimes get conflicting answers from the SAME person. I always ask, "Where can I look that up or get a copy?" If they can't confirm it, how can I rely on it? "Well, your honor Mr. XXXX from the PCCD said l could." That will go over real well.

[B002848]

I have been trying to find documentation such as case law or a statue, I'm unable to find any myself. From the communications between PCCD and PSP, from what I can out is that if you are working for a local goverment if some thing happens and you are act 44 certified, you can us the act 44 training to assist you in your defense. Another reason you need the act 44 is for insurance purposes, You have to check with your ins. carrier to see if they will cover a constable working with act 235 firearms.
Like you when I call the different agencies they give you different info. I do have a copy of a letter from PSP stating that constable can work for schools with act 44 training. I will have to dig that letter up as I recieved it a couple yaers ago, the letter is not in my name but it is a copy from another constable that was having problems finding the info.(the letter is from PSP commander out of Harrisburg)
If you find any documentation let me know, I will do the same with you.

[SETZ]

Thanks Vic. While I personally agree that a constable should be trained in whatever he is doing, there is nothing that I have found defining what an Elected Constable can do or not do, excluding court work and ACT 44. I have strict guidelines that I use when doing outside work and I adhere to them. Until I see something in writing, I believe that I am permitted to keep the peace in public anywhere in the state. Nothing in writing has told me that it depends on who is signing the check, or what I am wearing.

[CONSTABLEONEAL]

hey fellas got a question, if a township in wich you were elected in no longer has a local pd. Can we serve as a type of first responder to calls from our county from that township if the township were to hire us as such like a piece officer? or would that be out of our legal boundry as a constable.. after all we are being paid by our township.?????? very confused on this subject and ca not find any real clear awnser on this subject.... thanks for any comment:confused:

[ConstableChuck]

As the Constable of your Township you are a Peace Officer empowered to arrest with or without warrant anyone you see committing a felony, breach of the peace or other act tending to imperil the safety of the citizens or property in your Township, you have that authority by virtue of the office you hold and don't need permission from the Township or anyone else, however if you want the Township to pay you then you want their support.

The AOPC recently cited a PA Supreme Court ruling that stated Constables are Peace Officers whose duty is to preserve the peace and arrest those who violate it, you can also find statutes confirming our authority on the pafoc.org web site, so we do have the authority, that being said there are some practical difficulties facing you, the Police can arrest on information received but Constables can only arrest by warrant or for offenses they view, our PCCD training does not cover making warrantless arrests and the AOPC refuses to allow Constables to use criminal complaint forms to initiate charges, you could try using a private complaint form, however any smart defense attorney would figure out that Law Enforcement which includes Constables are not permitted to use private complaint forms.

If County 911 was willing to dispatch calls to you then you could respond, however unless you view an offense take place while at the scene you could only preserve the peace until the PSP arrives.

You could patrol your Township and arrest for offenses (other than traffic)you see but you would still need to get the Police to process the charges with a criminal complaint form.

So you could perform peace keeping services in your Township but you would not be able to provide the same level of service the Police Department did.

[SETZ]

Oneal,

I am in a municipality without a local PD. The council contracts to a bordering Borough to provide police protection. We are one of two towns that have a contract with this PD. My town suffers from lack of patrols, because the other contract town demands a lot more emergency reponses. There is not a car in our town unless it is answering a 9-1-1 call, or passing through to answer a 9-1-1 call in the other contract town.

As constables we can cite for violations of borough ordinances, you would need to get those from the borough. You could patrol your jurisdiction and possibly deter a small amount of crime. Without borough citations your only recourse is to warn the offenders for minor offenses. If the crime is serious enough you could call 9-1-1 and request the agency responsible for answering emergency calls in your town.

My town is currently evaluating the liability of issuing me citations for ordinance violations. They see me in the community being a visable deterent and handling on-view situations. The feed back from the community has been positive and some citizens have approached council about creating a more active role for me in the community.

As far as "assisting the contracted agency or PSP on emergency calls" in your town, that is something to take up with your town fathers and the contracting agency. I don't think that the disptch center will notify you, but rather it would be an availabilty thing on your part. If you heard a call over a radio or scanner, you would have the opertunity to respond or not.

[B002848]

In some of the areas that I work in, have constables working in parking authority, code enforcement, local or county dog officers, and what ever local p.d. doesn't want to do(park security, school safety, checking bldgs. basically what they don't want to do) but the constable has to call p.d. to enforce any of the local and state laws.
The dog officer is not a police officer but he drives a cruiser(doesn't write traffic citations or do traffic unless it is to back-up p.d.) dog officers are considered police officers by the state. There are some loophole in the system you just have to find them, and then make SURE that it is legal for you to do it. If it come down to feeding you to the sharks, or will twp. or city take the hit. What do you think they will do?
If you want to run as a first responder check with local fire department, or regional ems.,(not ambulance services) Pa. Department of Health and license yourself as a first responder through the State(you will have to be at least a state certified first responder.

[ward12constable1]

Ryan, for the above talk to me i have been in EMS as an EMT and a First Responder for the last 13 years. I can help you with this. I also know people at the Federation. If you want, E-mail me or i can call ya to get you up to speed and see what you want to do.

Teddy

[mcsap]

I am curious... with all of the stated authority that Constables have...how many of you have actually made arrests ? I mean arrests that YOU handled from writing a citation , to Misd and Felony charges?

How many of you have filed a Misd or Felony Criminal Complaint ? How many of you have made a domestic violence arrest ? How many have even taken someone into custody on NEW on view charges and turned them over to the police ?

What would you do if you arrested someone and when you went to the police , they declined to file any charges ?

Although PA gives certain powers to Constables, you guys are not and never will be the police.

I get along well with the Constables in my county and even though we now have central booking , I still use them a lot. My PD uses them more than any other in the county.

Be REAL sure you know what ACTUAL legal authority you have ( ask your DJ) before trying to use the full archaic Peace Officer " status granted by the Commonwealth.

[ConstableChuck]

mcsap

I know we have debated this issue before, and it's true that what is legal may not always be practical, however the law is what governs us, whether it be new law or archaic, unless it's been abrogated by statute it's valid, in the case of Title 13 SS. 45, on view warrantless arrest authority granted to Constables, the law has never been changed nor abrogated, therefore despite the fact that PCCD has not included it in our training and AOPC has made it impractical by denying us criminal complaint forms does not affect our lawful authority to make an on view warrantless arrest.

I'm not advocating that Constables focus on making warrantless arrests, our position and training is best suited for serving arrest warrants and enforcing other court orders, however there are times where we may feel the need to arrest on view without a warrant and I personally don't want anyone to mistakenly believe that I don't have the authority to do it.

As for asking a DJ, they have no authority to tell a Constable what he can or cannot do as a peace officer, plus most DJ's are not attorney's and are only required to complete four weeks of training, I would not rely on them to give me legal advice.

If I made a warrantless arrest and the Police, DJ or DA refused to process the charges because I was a Constable then I would present the law and give them an opportunity to reconsider, if they still refused then I would release the defendant, write a complete report of everything that transpired, then I would contact the AG's Office and the Judicial Conduct Board to file formal complaints against all parties involved, then I would initiate proceedings in the common pleas court to have a court of record hear my complaint.

I don't think that Constables are trying to be police, we have the authority to enforce criminal (by warrant and on view)and civil laws, whereas you have the authority to enforce all criminal and traffic laws, in some areas we have more authority than you, in other areas you have more authority then us, when it comes to serving arrest warrants and preserving the peace our powers are coextensive, that's just the way it is.

[mcsap]

mcsap

I know we have debated this issue before, and it's true that what is legal may not always be practical, however the law is what governs us, whether it be new law or archaic, unless it's been abrogated by statute it's valid, in the case of Title 13 SS. 45, on view warrantless arrest authority granted to Constables, the law has never been changed nor abrogated, therefore despite the fact that PCCD has not included it in our training and AOPC has made it impractical by denying us criminal complaint forms does not affect our lawful authority to make an on view warrantless arrest.

I'm not advocating that Constables focus on making warrantless arrests, our position and training is best suited for serving arrest warrants and enforcing other court orders, however there are times where we may feel the need to arrest on view without a warrant and I personally don't want anyone to mistakenly believe that I don't have the authority to do it.

As for asking a DJ, they have no authority to tell a Constable what he can or cannot do as a peace officer, plus most DJ's are not attorney's and are only required to complete four weeks of training, I would not rely on them to give me legal advice.

If I made a warrantless arrest and the Police, DJ or DA refused to process the charges because I was a Constable then I would present the law and give them an opportunity to reconsider, if they still refused then I would release the defendant, write a complete report of everything that transpired, then I would contact the AG's Office and the Judicial Conduct Board to file formal complaints against all parties involved, then I would initiate proceedings in the common pleas court to have a court of record hear my complaint.

I don't think that Constables are trying to be police, we have the authority to enforce criminal (by warrant and on view)and civil laws, whereas you have the authority to enforce all criminal and traffic laws, in some areas we have more authority than you, in other areas you have more authority then us, when it comes to serving arrest warrants and preserving the peace our powers are coextensive, that's just the way it is.

Whether the DJ is or isn't a lawyer doesn't matter. If he wont accept your criminal charges , you are hurting. And that is why Constables do NOT go out and make their OWN criiminal arrests. Because you know that you simply do not have the PROPER legal backing to do so and you would find yourself in a large lawsuit for False Arrest. Short of catching a bank robber in action or stopping an assault, you have no " true " authority.

I am still waiting for a record of all of the criminal charges that you have actually filed on your own. I mean as a Peace Officer, you have such broad legal authority to do so , right ?

None of you have and I doubt any of you ever will because you know the outdated laws that decsribe your authority will not be backed up by the modern Courts, DA's or the police.

ANYONE who " arrests" someone and than turns them over to me to file the charges for them will find me getting out my microscope. If you have your stated authority, why even bother with the police ? Go grab an armful of criminal complaints and you can do it all on your own.

There has been a LOT stated here and at other websites about PA Constable arrest powers but none of you actually PRACTICE what you preach.

[ConstableChuck]

I think your way off base here, what you have said is like saying that a Police Officer who has worked behind a desk his whole career and never made an arrest has no arrest authority because he hasn't used it.

There is no such thing as an "outdated law" , the law is either valid or it's not, the only way for a law to become invalid is for it to be abrogated by statute or ruled unconstitutional by the supreme court, that hasn't happened with Title 13 SS. 45, therefore the law is still valid, in fact in 1990 the PA Supreme Court stated that "the Constable is a Peace Officer whose duty is to preserve the peace and arrest those who voilate it" they also stated that the Constable belongs to the executive branch of government and carries out his duties according to statute, and they further said that it is the duty of the Constable to enforce the law the same as it is the duty of the Police and District Attorney, a few years later they clarified that the powers of Constables and Police are coextensive only insofar as it relates to preserving the peace.

I have never had the need to make an on view warrantless arrest, however I would if I saw someone commit a felony, breach of the peace or act that imperiled the safety of the citizens or their property in my Township, if the DJ refused to accept the charges then it would open the door for me to challenge him and the AOPC and I would welcome that opportunity, I doubt AOPC would let it get that far since they know they are wrong for not supplying criminal complaints to Constables, they would probably tell the DJ to let the charges go forward.

I do know a Constable who made an on view warrantless arrest, he brought him to the PD and they processed the criminal complaint.

Constables have all the legal backing we need, our authority is clearly defined by statute and has been affirmed by the PA Supreme Court as well as the Federal Courts, if someone doesn't know or agree with the law and decided to hinder a Constable performing his lawful duty then they do so at their own peril.

[SETZ]

It happens and has happened in Allegheny County for a long time. Look it up. The final authority on that came from the DA. He had instructed the ADA's to treat a criminal complaint from a Constable as they would from a police officer or deputy sheriff. It is written on a "Police Criminal Complaint" and not a "Private". I had the opportunity to make about 5 warrantless arrests. I opted to let the locals file the charges, because I knew that I would be doing the transport to the hearing and that I may be getting the warrant to pick them up off the street for failing to comply. I transported 3 and got warrants for the other 2. I thought that it may be seen as a conflict of interest to get paid to TX or serve a warrant and arrest them.

Could I have filed - YES.
Do I know how (without hand holding) - YES.
Did I give sworn testimony - YES.
Does mcap know more about Constables than me - NO.

End of Story.

[mcsap]

It happens and has happened in Allegheny County for a long time. Look it up. The final authority on that came from the DA. He had instructed the ADA's to treat a criminal complaint from a Constable as they would from a police officer or deputy sheriff. It is written on a "Police Criminal Complaint" and not a "Private". I had the opportunity to make about 5 warrantless arrests. I opted to let the locals file the charges, because I knew that I would be doing the transport to the hearing and that I may be getting the warrant to pick them up off the street for failing to comply. I transported 3 and got warrants for the other 2. I thought that it may be seen as a conflict of interest to get paid to TX or serve a warrant and arrest them.

Could I have filed - YES.
Do I know how (without hand holding) - YES.
Did I give sworn testimony - YES.
Does mcap know more about Constables than me - NO.

End of Story.


SO the answer is that nobody here has ever actually filed their own criminal complaints. You could have , you might have but you didn't. You opted the let the police handle it. I wonder why ?

You dont really know what I know but what I DO know is that whatever written authority may exist is not backed up in any county that I know of. Could Allegheny Co. treat you differently , sure. But they must be the only one

[mcsap]

You guys can have your corner of the world back. I would hate to see anyone get jammed up by actually attempting to use their " full authority" so be careful what you do and better yet, ask your DA ahead of time if he/she will accept complaints from you.

Mc

[B002848]

I won't speak for the other constables, I don't file criminal complaints because we don't get paid for the days that we are tied up at the D.J.s office, and if it goes to trial the $5.00 they pay for the witnesses just isn't worth it for me. when I file charges for municipalities they pay for my time, these are for local ordinance violations, but this frees are police departments to do there job. I try to assist local and state police as much as possible, because if they are stuck transporting a toad and are unable to respond to an emergency in the area I was elected I feel that I,m not doing what I,m suppose to do for the people , they did put us in our positions, and the police are not doing what they are getting paid to do they are hied to protect and serve not pick-up and taxi. I might be a constable but we all have the same job it is to protect and serve the community that we are elected in, or working as a police officer. I know there are a lot of constables that would like to be able to do more but Pa. has to better define (for every county) what the constables can do. Just like the sheriff dept. being told that they are not investigators, not to do search warrants and patrol areas. The only thing that happens in all these cases is that the general public suffers, because the law-enforcement community wants to fight each other on what the other is aloud to do. Personally I think we are brothers and should work for one thing that is protecting the public.

I know that there are still laws on the books for constables to arrest upon view. But anybody can make a citizens arrest.

Sorry guys I didn't mean to write a long piece but we should work together not cut each down. I know that some of us have more training than others.

[ConstableChuck]

Yes anyone can make citizens arrest for a felony, the big difference between a Constable making an arrest and a private citizen making a citizens arrest is that the Constable is a Peace Officer and as such has more authority and responsibilities when effecting an arrest, Constables arrest under color of law and are cloaked with the authority of the State, these are the words of the Federal Court in regards to PA Constables, the courts hold Constables to a higher standard than private citizens when it comes to affording civil rights to defendants.

I wouldn't recomend that any Constable claim that he made a "citizens arrest", the courts would hang you out to dry, when a Constable makes any arrest it is done as a Peace Officer.

[B002848]

that was a comment for the people who say constables can not arrest people. Anybody can make an arrest

[B002848]

Tom

You wanted documentation on Constables and Deputy Constables carrying firearms while they do not have a certification to do so. Just read
42 Pa cs ss 2948 It tells you Constable and Deputy Constable must be certified or qualified by PCCD to carry or use a firearm in the performance of any duty or duties
This is why PCCD told me I had to be certified act 44 to work with local governments and schools. You read it tell me what you get out of it. I think if you put five different attorneys on this section you would have five different answers.

[ConstableChuck]

I'm aware that Title 42 requires certification pursuant to Act 44 to carry a firearm while performing "any" duties, however my interpretation is that the certification is required when performing any duties within the scope of Title 42, and since Title 42 does not cover peace officer duties ie: election poll and other peace keeping duties that certification is not required when performing non-judicial duties, also Title 18 exempts Constables from licensing requirements to carry a firearm, Title 42 did not repeal Title 18 so the exemption still stands.

I think the wording of Title 42 is too ambiguous because it doesn't specify whether it pertains to any judicial and non-judicial duties or just to judicial duties as described in Title 42.

My personal opinion is better to be safe than sorry, if your gonna carry a firearm while serving as a Peace Officer then you want proper training whether the law requires it or not.

__________________________________________________ ________

Title 18 § 6106. Firearms not to be carried without a license.

(a) Offense defined.--Any person who carries a firearm in any vehicle or any person who carries a firearm concealed on or about his person, except in his place of abode or fixed place of business, without a valid and lawfully issued license under this chapter commits a felony of the third degree.
(b) Exceptions.--The provisions of subsection (a) shall not apply to: 11. Any person while carrying a firearm in any vehicle, which person possesses a valid and lawfully issued license for that firearm which has been issued under the laws of the United States or any other state.

(b) Exceptions.--The provisions of subsection (a) shall not apply to:

1. Constables, sheriffs, prison or jail wardens, or their deputies, policemen of this Commonwealth or its political subdivisions, or other law-enforcement officers.

[SETZ]

Vic & Chuck,

You've both made valid points. ACT 44 is and Title 42 could be written clearer. It never hurts to get any training that you can. Lawyers will have a field day with anything in writing. They could have a tear long debate on the word "NO". Thanks for the research guys.

[B002848]

Chuck
You are right about Title 18 but if you check with your prothonotary, or Clerk of Courts and see what the definitions of a Constable are. One of the books has all the forms and definitions of the forms, the other gives the definitions and responsibilities. The definition of a Constable by the State and County is an elected or appointed person who keeps the peace at elections and has the authority (in the ward elected in). The section states that constable have the same powers of the County Sheriff only in a smaller capacity, to the ward or Municipality they are elected or appointed.
I will try to get a copy and post it on this site. This is in writing in my Prothonotary and this is what they follow.
Title 18 states for your political sub division, my under standing to this is you can carry when in political subdivision but when you leave that area your powers stay at the line, unless you are certified under Act 44. Now this is what I am getting out of everything, yesterday was the first time I had seen the definitions and what authority the Constables have. If the Prothonotary, and Clerk of Courts are the ones who swear us in they are the ones who should know what power and authority we have.

In the county I am in they were violating Pa. Statute by letting Private Detectives hold office of Constable, just because it was not in there books.

Like I said I do not know what the name of thee books have but I will get a copy of it and post it. Then you can interpret it yourself.

Let me apologise for being so long winded and not knowing the name of these books

[B002848]

If you are performing peace officer duty within were you are elected or appointed I agree you should be able to carry. But if you draw your weapon or shoot (hitting what you are shooting at or hitting something else)
when you are going through a deposition they will ask for all of your certifications especially all the training you have with fire-arms.

This is not fun I have gone through depositions and they do try to hang you out to dry. Even the courts will ask for you certs.

Like most of our activities you have to cover your own six,