Wolf / steel case pistol ammo vs. extractor wear ...

[BCI INSTRUCTOR]

Hello all,

Can anyone offer their experiences, be they pro or con, regarding the _extended_ use of Wolf steel cartridge case pistol ammo and extractor wear or failure?

I have found the Wolf ammo in 9mm x 19 and 45 ACP to be reasonably accurate, perhaps slightly less accurate or roughly equal to Winchester "white box" basic target ammo or CCI Blazer brass ammo.
It's availability and cost have had me try a few cases worth, for personal target use and for student use during Concealed Firearm Permit and NRA Pistol classes.

I've been visually inspecting fired cases from my personal practice sessions and thus far have not seen any unusual signs on the cases themselves or had an extractor tear through a case. As to the firearms (primarily H & K 9mm USP, H & K 45 ACP USP, Baby Desert Eagle 45 ACP); I have not noticed that the extractors show signs of becoming "shinier" or feeling "sharper" or "rougher" by fingertip examination - but I am uncertain if this is a general trend or just testament to the rather robust designs of these specific pistols.

I am considering trying their 380 ACP offerings in a Walther PPK/s and Bersa Thunder 380, two pistols I often put into the hands of novice shooters, especialy females (have never met 1 female who didnt love the Walther's appearance and ergonomics, and being all steel helps tame the straight blowback designs' recoil).

Guess I am looking to see if I am risking any personal / professional liability as to "excessive wear" on a student's pistol if I provide their ammo. I would be particularly interested in comments as to wear on "limited use" pistols such as the Hi Point 9mm or especially the Kel-Tec P3AT or similar, as these pistols are marketed with an implied "limited lifespan". For example, some Kel-Tec offerings are stated to have a 6,000 round "lifespan".

Thank you in advance for any anecdotal or experiential information you may provide...

[zap]

I've not personally had any failures when shooting it, nor have I witnessed any failsures in any of my classes.

However, the opinion that the steel cases are harder on extracting parts makes sense to me.

That said, I bought ONE case of Wolf ammo. WAY too dirty for me. It will start fouling your guns *especially better guns* quicker than Winchester whitebox will. The explanation I"ve always assumed and been told is that the ammo was designed for eastern bloc countries where the fit of their guns were not as tightly controlled. Maybe true, maybe not, but I know what I saw. I won't use Wolf again.

If you want to save some cash....start reloading. I can buy a case (500) of .40 S&W for $150. I can reload two cases for $140 if I buy bullets. If I cast bullets and reload, I can roll 1000 rounds (2 cases) for about $40.

[BCI INSTRUCTOR]

Thanks Zap, especially appreciate the perspective as to Wolf likely engineering towards designs with more generous tolerances.

One item I did notice but failed to mention in my original post was that I do find that the residue on the action / slide feels a bit "gummier", I was attributing this to whatever lubricant and / or coating that Wolf uses on the steel cases; supposedly their coating is intended to make feeding more reliable.

Makes you wonder if the potential for accelerated wear is in part due to the case being "stickier" after firing and making extraction slightly more difficult?

I'd love to personally offer my own reloads for the classes for the sheer economy of it, but the course I offer for Utah CFP's specifically demands recommending against issuing reloads during training or recommending reloads for carry, for reasons of liability and reliability.

This directive is also intended to remove reloads as being an avenue of possible legal attack should someone have to defend themselves in court following a defensive incident ("amateur" reload being responsible for an accidental or negligent discharge, use of components with "inflammatory" titles such as "Terminator X" bullets repeated over and over to non-firearm savvy jurors, etc...)

Additionally, being on the road up to 80% of the time some months doesnt lend itself to reloading - and I doubt most Hampton Inn's or Radisson's would be thrilled if I marred a bathroom countertop by mounting a press ... :) - although it would definitely beat watching cable most nights on the road...

Thanks again Zap...

[Sipowicz]

I'm not as involved in rounds as zap is - I don't reload (though I may start now that I have a good size man cave . . . . .er . . . . garage in which to putz around in and do stuff like that. I can say I bought and shot one box of Wolf rounds and will never do so again. They were the filthiest I've ever shot with. Even the CCI Blazers were cleaner then Wolf, and CCI was filthy too.

I can honestly say I've never shot reloads, but like I said that may change. I've always shot Winchester White box (majority) or Remington (Kind of a green and yellow box if I recall correctly). Otherwise I have Federal Hydrashock +P loaded.

[BCI INSTRUCTOR]

Thank you for the feedback Sipowicz, seems the dirt / fouling / residue problem is not a unique experience. Majority of my personal shooting is with polygonally rifled pistol barrels so I am always leary of quantifying my experience as mainstream.

If you have not yet had the opportunity, you may wish to try the CCI Blazer Brass (reloadable) instead of the "standard" Blazer loads (non-reloadable aluminium cases). Blazer Brass is generally priced in between their non-reloadable offerings and Winchester's white box target stuff, with accuracy (in my opinion) exceeding Winchester in 9mm and too close to call in 45acp.
You also end up with a decent brass reloadable cases to stockpile for reloading should you outfit the "bat cave" with a press.

Thank you agan ...

[GoodKat]

I suggest avoiding wolf ammo. the quality control is sub-par at best, and the steel shells do cause additional wear to your gun. I used them in my ar-15, and the lubricant on the roundbaked to the insied of the rifle chamber, failing to extract. I had to scub the barrel for five minutes to get the crap out.

[zap]

I'd love to personally offer my own reloads for the classes for the sheer economy of it, but the course I offer for Utah CFP's specifically demands recommending against issuing reloads during training or recommending reloads for carry, for reasons of liability and reliability.

Never, EVER, allow reloads in ANY of your classes...ever.

[BluesCoyote]

I avoid Wolf brand ammunition, and all other steel cased ammunition like the plague. Dirty, and inaccurate (at least in .223, from my experience). Brass case only for me, thanks.

[TURNz]

I have a few opinions to add to this, some of which have been touched on already.

I did a price comparison about two years ago between Wolf and Winchester White Box (WWB) in 9mm. For a case of Wolf from any of the online sources plus shipping, I could not find a deal that saves more than $5 or $6 over buying 10 boxes of (100 round) WWB from Wal-Mart. The price has gone up significantly since then ($10.92 to about $20), but I imagine it's the same. That combined with the added wear, wasn't worth it for me.

Actually, in other calibers, two 50 round boxes of Blazer Brass are usually cheaper than one 100 round box of WWB, but Wal-Mart doesn't seem to sell Blazer in 9mm.

Just as mentioned, if you are providing the ammo, don't offer reloads. Too much libality if something happens.

If you do provide brass cased ammo for classes, you get to have the students pick up the brass and you can use it for your own reloads, or sell the "once fired" brass online and make a few bucks back. If you are flying to these classes and don't want to haul the brass on the plane, find a metal recycler near by. Brass goes for a descent price, especially if you have 2000 rounds of it.

As far as reloading in your hotel room, you can get a single stage hand press. It would be slow and tedeous, but if you had nothing better to do, it's an option. I'm sure you can come up with a way to hook up an actual press without damaging the counter in a hotel, if you really wanted to.

I don't know if Wolf uses the same laquer on pistol ammo that they used to use on 7.62x39 and .223, but it can really gum up the chamber if you get it hot. This causes lots of problems with ARs because of their tighter tolerances in the chanber. AK-47s on the other hand, love to eat up Wolf. I know mine does.

I know it's getting long, two more points.

Don't shoot lead cast reloads in Glocks, unless you have an after market barrel with standard rifling, the Glock rifling will get leaded up QUICK.

Though the Kel-Tecs have a "lifespan", they also have a lifetime warranty. If you shoot it out, they will rebuild it for free, you pay shipping.